[TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (Ends 2026-02-27)
"D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to> Thu, 19 February 2026 21:33 UTC
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From: "D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to>
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Subject: [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (Ends 2026-02-27)
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Sophie Schmieg writes: > [1] https://keymaterial.net/2025/11/27/ml-kem-mythbusting/ I see that you're arguing that the ML-KEM spec is too rigid to allow a Dual EC-style secretly keyed backdoor, i.e.., that the entropy needed for the backdoor key wouldn't be able to fit into the spec. Was someone arguing the opposite? You write "the concerns about it are overblown"; can you please quote the concerns that you're disputing? I've noticed other cryptosystems that don't seem to have many knobs to play with in the spec. For example, the starting SIKE curve was chosen to be very concise, to remove any concern about a backdoored choice of curve. And yet a few cryptographers, including me, were on record by 2021 stating concerns about SIKE having not been studied enough. Would you describe the apparent rigidity of SIKE as evidence that our concerns were overblown and that SIKE is secure? If not, why not? How exactly is this different from what you're now arguing about ML-KEM? RSA-512 is a well-known cryptosystem that has been applied to large quantities of user data. The specification of RSA-512 seems reasonably rigid. Would you describe this rigidity as evidence that RSA-512 is secure and that concerns about RSA-512's security are overblown? If not, why not? FrodoKEM, which is widely portrayed as the most conservative lattice system, says in https://web.archive.org/web/20230224071445/https://frodokem.org/files/FrodoKEM-sp ecification-20210604.pdf that it's an "instantiation and implementation" of a 2010 paper: https://web.archive.org/web/20111206143256/https://eprint.iacr.org/2010/613.pdf That paper proposes a lattice-based cryptosystem, and concretely proposes using lattice dimension 256 for security "about" 2^150 and "at least" 2^128. This is another concisely defined cryptosystem with very few obvious knobs to turn. Would you describe this rigidity as evidence that this dimension-256 lattice-based cryptosystem is secure and that concerns about its security are overblown? If not, why not? ---D. J. Bernstein ===== NOTICES ===== This document may not be modified, and derivative works of it may not be created, and it may not be published except as an Internet-Draft. (That sentence is the official language from IETF's "Legend Instructions" for the situation that "the Contributor does not wish to allow modifications nor to allow publication as an RFC". I'm fine with redistribution of copies of this document; the issue is with modification. Legend language also appears in, e.g., RFC 5831. For further background on the relevant IETF rules, see https://cr.yp.to/2025/20251024-rules.pdf.)
- [TLS] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (Ends… Joseph Salowey
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Ben Schwartz
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf… Ben Schwartz
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Ben Schwartz
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Quynh Dang
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Joshua
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… sanketh
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-… sanketh
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Joseph Salowey
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Quynh Dang
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Dan Wing
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Izzy Grosof
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nick Sullivan
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Kurt Roeckx
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nicola Tuveri
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Izzy Grosof
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-… Keegan Dasilva Barbosa
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-07 (… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Izzy Grosof
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-05 (… Simon Josefsson