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[TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email-00.txt

"Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu> Tue, 24 February 2026 02:22 UTC

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From: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu>
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Thread-Topic: [EXT] [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email-00.txt
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2026 02:20:57 +0000
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Subject: [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email-00.txt
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Respectfully disagree (autocorrector tried to change “Respectfully” to “Tragically “ - I wonder why 😁).

We all know that these algorithms will be used by a non-negligible group. Might as well accept that now, and make the future transition easier. 
—
Regards,
Uri

Secure Resilient Systems and Technologies
MIT Lincoln Laboratory

On Feb 23, 2026, at 21:12, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:


Whether we publish the document or not has no bearing on whether these algorithms are usable. The code points are already registered. At the point where we think that the IETF ought to recommend them (Recommended=Y), then we can publish an RFC. 
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Whether we publish the document or not has no bearing on whether
these algorithms are usable. The code points are already registered.

At the point where we think that the IETF ought to recommend them
(Recommended=Y), then we can publish an RFC.

-Ekr



On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 6:05 PM Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL <uri@ll.mit.edu> wrote:
I think declining to publish draft-ietf-tls-mlkem is a bad idea, and strongly suggest that the WG dis publish it. Because non-hybrid PQ KEMs are needed, and in the long term only they make sense. 
—
Regards,
Uri

Secure Resilient Systems and Technologies
MIT Lincoln Laboratory

On Feb 23, 2026, at 20:59, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:


On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 5: 52 PM Deirdre Connolly <durumcrustulum@ gmail. com> wrote: Oh ho ho so we do need RFCs! Sometimes. As Section 3 says: The registry policies in [RFC8447] define a few specific things that require working group action. 
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On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 5:52 PM Deirdre Connolly <durumcrustulum@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh ho ho so we do need RFCs!

Sometimes. As Section 3 says:
  The registry policies in [RFC8447] define a few specific things that
   require working group action.

   *  Initial registration with Recommended=Y

   *  Changing the value of the Recommended column to "Y" or "D" from
      something else

   *  Changing the value of the Recommended column from "Y" or "D" to
      something else

The point is that we don't otherwise need RFCs.
-Ekr



On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 8:51 PM Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:


On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 5:47 PM Deirdre Connolly <durumcrustulum@gmail.com> wrote:
> If others agree that this is a good policy, then I think we should enact
i> t with retroactive effect, which is to say:

> 1. Make ECHDE/MLKEM Recommended=Y (as also suggested by
    Bas's draft).
> 2. Decline to publish draft-ietf-tls-mlkem

Why not claw back -ecdhe-mlkem?

That would be another alternative, but I think it should be Recommended=Y and
that requires an RFC at Standards Track.

-Ekr
 

On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 8:03 PM Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:
I strongly support this draft. One of the main reasons for relaxing the
registration rules and introducing the Recommended column was to
avoid spending time debating the merits of new algorithms that everyone
knew weren't going to be standardized, and yet a huge fraction of the
mail on the list over the past few months is doing precisely that.

The obvious objection to this draft is that there might be some work
required to refine how an algorithm is used and that an I-D might not be
enough for that. I have two responses to that:

- Recent history does not seem to indicate that is the case. We're
  busily debating parts of the specification that have no impact on
  the wire format.
- If an algorithm isn't important enough to have Recommended=Y,
  then it's not worth WG time to refine it.

If others agree that this is a good policy, then I think we should enact
it with retroactive effect, which is to say:

1. Make ECHDE/MLKEM Recommended=Y (as also suggested by
    Bas's draft).
2. Decline to publish draft-ietf-tls-mlkem

-Ekr


On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 4:56 PM Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
Hi TLS folks,

Those who have worked with me know that I hate doing unnecessary work.  It occurred to me that the TLS WG has been doing a lot of unnecessary work on drafts that just register crypto algorithms.  This draft proposes that we shouldn't do that.

Submitted for your consideration,
--Richard

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 2:53 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email-00.txt
To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>


A new version of Internet-Draft
draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email-00.txt has been successfully
submitted by Richard Barnes and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:     draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email
Revision: 00
Title:    Stop Doing Cryptographic Algorithm Drafts when Email to IANA is All You Need
Date:     2026-02-24
Group:    Individual Submission
Pages:    5
URL:      https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email-00.txt" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email-00.txt
Status:   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email/
HTML:     https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email-00.html" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email-00.html
HTMLized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-barnes-tls-this-could-have-been-an-email


Abstract:

   People keep pitching drafts to the TLS Working Group where the only
   thing the draft does is register a code point for a cryptographic
   algorithm.  Stop doing that.  It's unnecessary.  Write an email to
   IANA instead.



The IETF Secretariat


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