[TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Wed, 15 April 2026 16:21 UTC
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2026 09:16:45 -0700
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To: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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CC: Daniel Van Geest <daniel.vangeest=40cryptonext-security.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "<tls@ietf.org>" <tls@ietf.org>
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Subject: [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA
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On Wed, Apr 15, 2026 at 9:03 AM Salz, Rich <rsalz= 40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > - TLDR; Any Composite ML-DSA combination presents as just another > signature algorithm. Yes, there are too many Composite ML-DSA > combinations. That is independent of the complication objections and is > easily remedied in TLS by defining a subset. > > > Okay, this API (C code) is all over the place: > int EVP_SignFinal(EVP_MD_CTX *ctx,/* a context handle */ > unsigned char *sig,unsigned int *s, /* buffersize and buffer */ > EVP_PKEY *pkey /*the private key */ > ); > > What do I change, compatibly, to allow multiple private keys? A new API? > For everything that takes “a” private key, it now takes “a set” of private > keys? > I think this is a good example, because I would be expecting no changes here. Specifically, my expectation is that a composite signature algorithm would appear as if it were a single signature algorithm with a single key. Of course it would internally have multiple keys, but that's no different from existing algorithms whose keys have multiple components (e.g., RSA). I agree that you'll need to define new wire formats for the composite signature keys and the signatures, but I wouldn't expect the APIs to change at all. Note that I'm not arguing here for composite signature, but I don't think API complexity is an obstacle. -Ekr _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list -- tls@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to tls-leave@ietf.org >
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-DSA i… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Working Group Last Call for … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Quynh Dang
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Jack Grigg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Corey Bonnell
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Marc Penninga
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Michael StJohns
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Jack Grigg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Joshua
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Wang Guilin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Daniel Apon
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Michael StJohns
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Tim Hudson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Joshua
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Wang Guilin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Falko Strenzke
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Christopher Patton
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Dennis Jackson
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Dennis Jackson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Peter C
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA tim.beckmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Mike Ounsworth
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Mike Ounsworth
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Composite ML-DSA John Gray
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Falko Strenzke