[TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA
Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Thu, 16 April 2026 10:32 UTC
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From: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>
To: Sophie Schmieg <sschmieg=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "tim.beckmann=40mailbox.org@dmarc.ietf.org" <tim.beckmann=40mailbox.org@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA
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Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2026 10:32:09 +0000
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References: <16CF0FDA-7263-461A-9F2B-D37DBEAF5DD9@sn3rd.com> <25c8d414-e4c8-455b-bd64-28132615ba75@cs.tcd.ie> <68f49a81-dd2c-4bea-896a-87da3e6aff68@tu-dresden.de> <CAMjbhoWwvfkfScpbf4-5PBzk__qb+6M4ZzAOba64kk9aXBba5g@mail.gmail.com> <d47a34ab-7fb9-4687-84aa-a5fa6bcf6a6c@tu-dresden.de> <2971d01a-89e3-43d3-a01d-b9c17b178763@amongbytes.com> <692bb582-ab7e-4d6b-aa75-ac5d93228bb2@tu-dresden.de> <DS4PPFA08475C7DBE27468E40C672197481C1242@DS4PPFA08475C7D.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <LV0PR21MB6623B48B1F3A05D745F5A79D8C242@LV0PR21MB6623.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <ad0svakv_WUM3btz@chardros.imrryr.org> <CAF8qwaBU_YHWX2MsWeeaOJ8sutR1wMozvbiTJF5kyvTE8YjWWA@mail.gmail.com> <CACsn0c=GDta824UF7uJ3nw_4U_rT=XhYOGHRemMWa+2AdbsiAg@mail.gmail.com> <3a16c7c4-345e-48ce-af70-a3bf503c8caf@app.fastmail.com> <CACf5n7_0hdeHJXXucva9pb=+pjhcgveHRpjA8XAcXB3LsYUvaw@mail.gmail.com> <CAFpG3gcC+UfO7E=ADGhwr2En5PwipZiq_r6_RdqvmT-5nnh2jw@mail.gmail.com> <d69ba150-0257-4e64-9abb-9229d03a03a6@app.fastmail.com> <129715714.1963.1776284832509@app.mailbox.org> <CAEEbLAYbQF5XapVPqGbNCuj64oYiYQ5BO5WnRBeXFQuFzs=o8g@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA
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Sophie Schmieg <sschmieg=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> writes: >In my experience, by far the biggest risk when it comes to signatures is not >in the algorithms themselves, but implementers either forgetting to verify, >ignoring the verification result, or forgetting to check that the message >actually attests to the thing they wanted attesting for (i.e. the valid >certificate for a different domain problem). As an example, just this week: Critical flaw in wolfSSL library enables forged certificate use A critical vulnerability in the wolfSSL SSL/TLS library can weaken security via improper verification of the hash algorithm or its size when checking Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm (ECDSA) signatures. And that's just the latest in a long history of things like this, with the most common being developers hardwiring certificate-verification callbacks to 'return 1' to "make things work", so much so that this "best practice" is now the recommended one in AI models: # Disable SSL warnings - use proper cert validation in production urllib3.disable_warnings(urllib3.exceptions.InsecureRequestWarning) (this is what you get when your next-word-predictor scrapes the web and then synthesises code from the most frequently-encountered snippets). Peter.
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-DSA i… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Working Group Last Call for … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Quynh Dang
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Jack Grigg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Corey Bonnell
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Marc Penninga
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Michael StJohns
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Jack Grigg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Joshua
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Wang Guilin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Daniel Apon
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Michael StJohns
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Tim Hudson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Joshua
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Wang Guilin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Falko Strenzke
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Christopher Patton
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Dennis Jackson
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Dennis Jackson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Peter C
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA tim.beckmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Mike Ounsworth
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Mike Ounsworth
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Composite ML-DSA John Gray