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[TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3

Soatok Dreamseeker <soatok.dhole@gmail.com> Sun, 12 April 2026 18:35 UTC

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From: Soatok Dreamseeker <soatok.dhole@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 14:33:15 -0400
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CC: Bas Westerbaan <bas=40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, TLS List <tls@ietf.org>
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Subject: [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3
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As someone who *prefers* hybrid KEMs, I do not believe the same argument
holds for hybrid signatures. There is no analogous "harvest now, decrypt
later" against signature schemes. They can only be exploited once a CRQC
exists, and not a moment sooner. The pre-QC algorithmic risk of pure ML-DSA
vs hybrid ML-DSA is significantly lower than that of ML-KEM vs hybrid
ML-KEM.

On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 5:51 AM Simon Josefsson <simon=
40josefsson.org@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Bas Westerbaan <bas=40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org> writes:
>
> > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 11:35 AM Simon Josefsson <simon=
> > 40josefsson.org@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I've re-read the document and continue to believe that this work ought
> >> not to be published through the TLS WG.  There are other publication
> >> venues available for crypto algorithm registrations, and I believe using
> >> our time in the WG on non-hybrid KEM's to be a bad idea because of all
> >> the concerns expressed throughout the life of this document.
> >>
> >
> > Simon, just to be sure you read the right document: this thread is not
> > about KEMs.
>
> Thanks for the catch - one week of vacation in the sun tends to re-set
> the terminology brain :)
>
> Please read my comment replacing 'non-hybrid KEM' with 'non-hybrid
> PQ-Signature' above, and replace 'throughout the life of this document'
> with 'by earlier discussions on the insecurity of non-hybrid PQ usage'.
>
> /Simon
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> /Simon
> >>
> >> Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > This is the working group last call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS
> >> > 1.3. Please review draft-ietf-tls-mldsa [1] and reply to this thread
> >> > indicating if you think it is ready for publication or not. If you do
> >> > not think it is ready please indicate why. This call will end on April
> >> > 23, 2026.
> >> >
> >> > REMINDER: If you have not done so recently, review the TLS WG's Mail
> >> List Procedures; see [2].
> >> >
> >> > The Chairs,
> >> > Deirdre, Joe, and Sean
> >> >
> >> > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tls-mldsa/
> >> > [2]
> >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/ucdImHExlbOf4Q3BCG81gjzi2xE/
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > TLS mailing list -- tls@ietf.org
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