[TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA
Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> Wed, 15 April 2026 16:25 UTC
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Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2026 02:20:44 +1000
From: Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org>
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Subject: [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA
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On Wed, Apr 15, 2026 at 04:06:27PM +0000, Andrei Popov wrote:
> The complexity argument is implementation-dependent. On Windows, the
> PKI stack encapsulates the multiple keys involved, so the use of a
> composite cert looks no different to the TLS stack (and other apps)
> than the use of any other cert.
Likewise in OpenSSL, the real complexity is having to implement and
support the algorithms, when it is not clear who's going to use them,
and whether supporting them is a disservice to the community because it
breeds balkanisation through too many choices only some of which will be
supported by some of the stacks. I see it as a Pandora's box I don't
want to open without good cause.
--
Viktor. 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-DSA i… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Working Group Last Call for … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Quynh Dang
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Jack Grigg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Corey Bonnell
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Marc Penninga
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Michael StJohns
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Jack Grigg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Joshua
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Wang Guilin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Daniel Apon
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Michael StJohns
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Tim Hudson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Joshua
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Wang Guilin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Falko Strenzke
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Christopher Patton
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Dennis Jackson
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Dennis Jackson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Peter C
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA tim.beckmann
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-D… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Mike Ounsworth
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Mike Ounsworth
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Daniel Van Geest
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Composite ML-DSA John Gray
- [TLS] Re: Composite ML-DSA Falko Strenzke