[Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-03.txt> (Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3) to Informational RFC
"D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to> Mon, 01 June 2026 20:42 UTC
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2026 20:42:45 -0000
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From: "D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to>
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Subject: [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-03.txt> (Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3) to Informational RFC
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I've just finished a paper titled "Exploiting ML-DSA bugs":
https://cr.yp.to/papers.html#mldsa
Let me gently suggest that IESG extend the current "last call" and ask
the TLS WG chairs to stop censoring my messages to the TLS mailing list.
The abstract of the paper is as follows:
At least four Dilithium software vulnerabilities have been announced
so far, including an identical vulnerability in each of the two
official Dilithium 1.0 implementations and two different
vulnerabilities in a "verified" implementation of Dilithium 3.4,
also known as ML-DSA. However, there do not appear to have been any
demos showing exploitability of any of these vulnerabilities.
This paper shows that a small change in ML-DSA software creates an
ML-DSA version of the Dilithium 1.0 software vulnerability, can
occur by accident as in the original vulnerability, interoperates
with authentic ML-DSA, passes typical tests, and is exploitable in 1
second on 1 laptop core. This paper provides an open-source attack
demo that inspects a public key and two signatures, obtains an
equivalent secret key, and uses this key to rapidly forge signatures
on attacker-chosen messages.
This paper also shows that another small change in ML-DSA software
creates a different software vulnerability, can occur by accident as
in the Sony PlayStation 3 ECDSA vulnerability, interoperates with
authentic ML-DSA, passes typical tests, and is exploitable in 1
second on 1 laptop core. This paper again provides an open-source
attack demo that rapidly forges signatures on attacker-chosen
messages, after inspecting a public key and a few signatures.
This paper then uses standard techniques to estimate exploitability
rates for ML-DSA software, and to estimate the number of ML-DSA keys
that the attacker will be able to break in year Y, as a function of Y.
This paper also reviews evidence in the literature regarding quantum
timelines, costs of quantum attacks, and non-quantum security
failures in ECC, so as to estimate the number of Ed25519+ML-DSA
double-signing keys that the attacker will be able to break in year
Y. The main conclusion is that, even years after the first quantum
attack, this number will still be much smaller than the number of
breakable ML-DSA keys.
Qualitative security benefits of ECC+PQ compared to solo PQ have
been pointed out before, but not with quantified estimates of the
number of breakable keys. Some recent postings gave arguments
disputing these benefits; this paper closes by pointing out flaws in
those arguments.
---D. J. Bernstein
===== NOTICES =====
IETF BCP 78, "Rights Contributors Provide to the IETF Trust", Section 5
(normative), "Rights in Contributions", provides a modification right
"unless explicitly disallowed in the notices contained in a Contribution
(in the form specified by the Legend Instructions)".
The official language from IETF's "Legend Instructions" for the
situation that "the Contributor does not wish to allow modifications nor
to allow publication as an RFC" is as follows: "This document may not be
modified, and derivative works of it may not be created, and it may not
be published except as an Internet-Draft."
<https://trustee.ietf.org/wp-content/uploads/Corrected-TLP-5.0-legal-provsions.pdf>
The same language is used in, e.g., RFC 5831. The same language hereby
applies to this document. This is not disclaiming or limiting the
applicability of IETF policies; it is strictly following IETF policies.
IESG claims that the "explicitly disallowed" provision in BCP 78 is
limited to the examples in Section 3 in BCP 78. That is incorrect. BCP
78 states that Section 5, "Rights in Contributions", is normative, while
Section 3, "Exposition of Why These Procedures Are the Way They Are", is
informative. The opt-out provision in the normative is clear, and cannot
be limited by an informative section. BCP 78 also does not give IESG any
authority to issue changes or purported clarifications of the rules.
Rationale for exercising the BCP 78 opt-out provision: I'm fine with
redistribution of copies of this document. The issue is instead with
modification, such as (1) IESG's May 2025 posting of an IESG-mangled
version of an appeal that I had filed and (2) IETF management selling
IETF mailing-list text to AI companies. There's no legitimate excuse for
that, and it goes far beyond what copyright law allows as fair use, such
as giving quotes for purposes of commentary.
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Simon Josefsson
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Dave Cridland
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Nick Hilliard
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Paul Wouters
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Christian Huitema
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Watson Ladd
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Brian E Carpenter
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Brian E Carpenter
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Christian Huitema
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Tim Bray
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Last Call: <draft-i… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Re: Last Call: … D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Re: Last Call: … Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Las… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Brian E Carpenter
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Last Call: <draft-i… Daniel Apon
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Brian E Carpenter
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Tim Bray
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Re: Last Call: … Brian E Carpenter
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Las… Ilari Liusvaara
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Las… John Mattsson
- [Last-Call] Re: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-03.txt> (Us… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: <draft-ietf-t… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-0… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-0… Nick Hilliard
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Las… Loganaden Velvindron
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Russ Housley
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Ilari Liusvaara
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Filippo Valsorda
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Sophie Schmieg
- [Last-Call] Re: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-03.txt> (Us… Brian E Carpenter
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… John Mattsson
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Loganaden Velvindron
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Nadim Kobeissi
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Nadim Kobeissi
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Nadim Kobeissi
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… John Mattsson
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Filippo Valsorda
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Last Call: <draft-i… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Last Call: <draft-i… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Tanja Lange
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Filippo Valsorda
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Nadim Kobeissi
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Nadim Kobeissi
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… Falko Strenzke
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… John Mattsson
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… Loganaden Velvindron
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-… Paul Hoffman
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… Damien Miller
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: <draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-0… John Mattsson
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… John Mattsson
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Deb Cooley
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… D. J. Bernstein
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… Falko Strenzke
- [Last-Call] Re: [TLS] Re: Re: Re: Last Call: <dra… Peter Gutmann