[TLS] For those who have recently joined us - a brief digression on consensus.

Michael StJohns <msj@nthpermutation.com> Fri, 03 July 2026 18:59 UTC

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From: Michael StJohns <msj@nthpermutation.com>
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Subject: [TLS] For those who have recently joined us - a brief digression on consensus.
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/Pww97WxTQUIoaDs0Z-deg4cgPSM>

Hi -  Note that the only hat I'm wearing here is of a long time IETF 
participant.

If you've recently joined this list, perhaps solely to "vote" on 
publication of a document, I wanted to give each of you a few pointers 
for your edification.

1 - Getting started in the IETF - 
https://www.ietf.org/participate/get-started/

2 - On Consensus and Humming in the IETF - 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7282

First - the IETF does not "vote" all claims or statements to the contrary.

    Working groups make decisions by rough consensus as judged by their
    chairs. [2] above, while neither a standard or a BCP is IMO a
    reasonable explanation of the rough consensus process.  With respect
    to the current discussion, I recommend reading both section 6 and
    section 7 of the document.

    The IETF (collective intelligence) has long experience with
    variations on the themes of dog piling, greek chorus's, and sock
    puppets.  We tend to be able to differentiate between an
    individual's considered opinion and an unconsidered solicited
    "vote".  We also have tools (e.g. when did you actually sign up for
    the mailing list) that provide some more objective hints in this
    category.

    The leadership bodies (IESG, IAB) DO vote on the matters before
    them. But they tend to be rather resistant to any comments but well
    stated technical arguments.

Second, I strongly recommend reading [1] and appropriate links from it.

    The IETF is NOT IEEE, not ISO, not OASIS, not W3C, not Global
    Platform.  Our procedures and the acceptable behavior around such
    procedures have evolved over time, and were, at the beginning at
    least, incorporated as push-back to having ISO internet standards
    declared as replacing TCP/IP standards by fiat. (Ask an old timer
    about Kobe, the original IAB, and the IETF reformation).

    Trying to engage with the IETF without understanding the limits of
    your approach in the IETF context is unlikely to provide you the
    results you may be looking for.  Or substitute both "IETF" with any
    other organization and I believe the statement remains mostly true.

Lastly - if you've considered all of the above, and you still have a 
strongly held view - informed by your own research into the problem - 
express yourself!  In last calls, a short 1-2 sentence explanation of 
why you're supporting or opposed (or don't support but also don't 
oppose) the action should be all that's needed even for a newcomer.

Oh yes - welcome! TLS is important to the IETF and *YOUR* contribution 
is part of our rough consensus.

Mike

[TLS] For those who have recently joined us - a b… Michael StJohns
[TLS] Re: For those who have recently joined us -… Ashish Shah
[TLS] Re: For those who have recently joined us -… Justin Schnurbusch