[TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-08 (Ends 2026-07-08)

Aaron Gable <aaron@letsencrypt.org> Thu, 02 July 2026 15:21 UTC

Return-Path: <aaron@letsencrypt.org>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626E810CA90BF for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Thu, 2 Jul 2026 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1783005702; bh=J8kSupo9WSHPEFxrKaPk4pWPmdd78MwSzXffpfmJnQk=; h=From:Date:Subject:To; b=kx/Tj8/rSI5QxlfZ1yDc+nBK6m86qwNCXzMZ+M2SzhQCg8hHlvW4x905cxmmKiHWX da7V5e+ND6RuJ3hZY1P18nD38LIjYq/6wpdIgZFb0OXTTdMNiq4MT/Owj3yC4g5yqL 9i/iBibWhBDeBzNb86VsU7rq5oxZzjwXqOhpS4B0=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.83
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.83 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=letsencrypt.org
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qzkWGNFB39ND for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Thu, 2 Jul 2026 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com (mail-wm1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD9A410CA8E17 for <tls@ietf.org>; Thu, 2 Jul 2026 08:21:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-493ba701891so13237385e9.3 for <tls@ietf.org>; Thu, 02 Jul 2026 08:21:07 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1783005667; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; b=JRclUmT5E/5a6t9z3ELFoYdvMd/yLOGmNWlzQusIusKGqqYzJvOuqs8WXVcX5qoOaf fBRSsywTK4wzVL7quSi+XSMcdXczu+XmOHoM9PZrAXQXuYM28+FF87duwnzveppqSFyl m9cYAG377XZQdcD7+qIxpfD/KDWJYv7qxsjhgS00Rp9kVEoSX5ObJhmAqWq4+UJcWy/i Te316RN79de+5x9BDdYIqu/o1Qni+O5MYEf3JOKrKqKzX8iNyZ04Mh4QnhzrTTWvb5Q4 TZqt9FsW2TVXqZ5DUwmoIgjx8ARY5wK293JZWqBZ2Au1yRRGwzphwvDJ9mvnByGDS/un I22w==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=TrNUt0LJQx/KrjwI5bV3tIL0PX3B/OCLK3hjQnAYyCA=; fh=iMQEz7fIE2XtFWqLUMEt8tz+aEDEJVSqHa2ftqd9oME=; b=AogKXesBIkLhNPWiCVZwpLK2F5Uiz+yuFbEABinSuKF40zYPpC6RB+9WKUez0dDgKm quwzq8z5gT3BsGSJJHI4QtupIprAjB5+iXGiVkGjRlQ12TOEr9/kuFVfDaNYu644KfaW R0o5r/BFbybzF3qLUp2/ve60avXW+g6tJARtwUrZsJqB6pBEgJxmRg7YUVivSJAj0GIp 0eYZtrAyejC/9hV3Y3QjrHad5XJSZO4+7wqz/Z5m3Av4Dg+Sf5lve0AkgsmzId0VfqQY TJZxmuyv9H1wKLG4z+KsJR9hUc7+6entQWBokoUKeuI9BuiSo4oq2aTWSBMfHDh6767C qKgw==; darn=ietf.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=letsencrypt.org; s=google; t=1783005667; x=1783610467; darn=ietf.org; h=content-type:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to:content-type; bh=TrNUt0LJQx/KrjwI5bV3tIL0PX3B/OCLK3hjQnAYyCA=; b=gGjrXUAiY1C8btHOHIdP6sN13YX83R873CC0mMsIJezkVMojpePfpPwd9urI/e1fv8 KVhopVFuV79C/MLVxRSkR+LTEBEtRtIG4TzLZT1rJ1eZ7j9fRmpFxCaLlA99BDrYlbdb tQsId/uUyBwstUZer55goRYG+YgeF2VK4P5To=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1783005667; x=1783610467; h=content-type:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-gg :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to :content-type; bh=TrNUt0LJQx/KrjwI5bV3tIL0PX3B/OCLK3hjQnAYyCA=; b=Ml9owrZceKqVuMh9SJXTpryM6LBnkh2mpzzJjXI1ewVc8vvGVSM5HAKLmlIijMpcmW s8kmnnRi/CXMHgJrjA+lfuqSVTmeDvISrrbfT4mgNqIUSKEpCpa6TEHRZ+Py1KqilzCG Isae+I8Kxv1U11UtHqdcSJzAujwNFWLhIV1cTX34dLhpfIMrSZUX4giWILtVkbE0iG2s WTxPnomXb3EWdRb0DiYlnK9sVjyj3KW2Ws/ZRY4mwvqwegFIF80cWyCgURwotETqnGQp TZV2mRIW12RHj4BUsltbXScgiEBlix4+EQxe2Hl+3hNuUbJa2DODZylM9fz3HgNrdrRs Q/UQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwwytLaojE7Yp3y3oQoti4Ne9C4ddK0Gj0o1az5uC0ePKJb6fzL XDegAGSPK/CYsn9PI7SK2ko44473mmv3oM+XmMjg0Z6N0sNSayZMbmIIIlDfd8c9ip1/H+9F7/Y wLrW/rfmQXcPe9t5CIfNkD5b1kWVloCpUaXw1TkWr6Z6gWJZlLcNAPIznBw==
X-Gm-Gg: AfdE7cmtrcyp3y3mQrOhdHh9Y+5cv44AUSTYy9ciSmWaJuCZ8GKEKPEVDN1vSmpGoBp 7Myr2UYi6EP0uTGdnR19gFRhCQZh5I+JXSu5hsLYuUCgxaptxzVM0DIE9fFow5AspDtFG5yFSgj WzwCmiMz8SZWT9w7nGiEh7C2fCniWTMFIPy8Gvgl2IUh83ceT26JrwD3BPld/iPDsLf8RyAVEHj 3xrNdBvDYPyeUb/I9k0elsVhMtXpSrExvxLJG3lvc80Xw6Zr9iqpnf+rwtcszSwbivXKRBMH9pw RJwr1F4=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:9a2:b0:493:b6d5:72df with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-493c3cfd435mr56115975e9.35.1783005666207; Thu, 02 Jul 2026 08:21:06 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: Aaron Gable <aaron@letsencrypt.org>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2026 08:20:55 -0700
X-Gm-Features: AVVi8CdiX6awyst6849SrU3rr9reWGmRA7kklwpwc9V8YxO-gq-pKTGsc6AlzWQ
Message-ID: <CAEmnErcfNnE7ZMYku1bxN9JRmEQTF-r70sfz4X5QeWt_UiY9tA@mail.gmail.com>
To: tls@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005dfa420655a25b08"
Message-ID-Hash: T2GYIMEGQGUM3FXIFT7UXASRCC36V2VQ
X-Message-ID-Hash: T2GYIMEGQGUM3FXIFT7UXASRCC36V2VQ
X-MailFrom: aaron@letsencrypt.org
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-mlkem-08 (Ends 2026-07-08)
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/o6kGd2X8MutkY06Z7edXxFPxSnQ>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>

Hi all,

I support publication of this document. Although I am not subscribed to the
TLS list (largely out of a desire to spend my time getting work done
instead of reading re-treads of the same arguments), I am an active
participant and RFC author in the ACME and PLANTS working groups.

This document certainly has running code. I believe this document has also
achieved rough consensus: while full unanimity would be better, rough
consensus is the fallback
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7282#section-3> (RFC 7282,
Section 3) for when objections have been raised, addressed, and yet
continue to be raised. The core objection is that this document appears to
endorse a protocol which some members of this WG consider less secure than
other available protocols. This objection has been addressed: the document
explicitly does not recommend the use of pure ML-KEM, it merely
standardizes it for interoperability. Further objections along this line,
raised by any number of people, are not indications of lack of consensus --
they are instead just an example of the scenario in which "five people for
and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7282#section-7>" (RFC  7282,
Section 7).

As RFC 7872 says, this working group has become pathological and fallen
into dysfunction. This call will be one of the hardest for the chairs to
make, but it is their job to sift out the potentially weak signal from the
huge amount of background noise. I believe there is sufficient evidence
that this document has achieved both rough consensus and running code, and
therefore should be published. I hope the chairs agree.

Aaron Gable